108 – Top Non-Profit Leadership Tips with Kathy Archer

Episode Transcription

David Pisarek: Have you ever felt stuck trying to lead a big change in your organization only to find yourself juggling everyday tasks with no clear way forward? What if there was a way to confidently manage change without sacrificing your team’s buy-in or your own peace of mind?

Welcome to the Non-profit Digital Success podcast. As always, I’m your host, David. And on this episode, we’re talking about confidence and resilience in leadership with Kathy Archer.

Once an overwhelmed non-profit leader herself, Kathy now empowers non-profit leaders to lead with confidence and balance without compromising their values or personal lives. Super, super important.

Kathy is the author of Mastering Confidence, and she has an upcoming book from what I hear. Do you want to talk about that for yourself?

Kathy Archer: Sure. Character-driven leadership is a five-step guide to shape your non-profit management style with strong values, ethics, and morals.

David Pisarek: Amazing. Three super fantastic topics that we all need to keep in the back of our mind as well as the front of our mind, as well as with our team to empower them. Kathy, thank you so much for joining us on the episode today. Let’s hop in and get going.

Kathy Archer: Absolutely. Excited to be here, David. I love listening to your podcast, so excited to be on it.

David Pisarek: Amazing. Glad we have a fan, right?

Kathy Archer: Yes.

David Pisarek: All right, so let’s jump in. Why do non-profit leaders struggle to lead change initiatives effectively?

Kathy Archer: Well, for starters, they’ve never been taught how.

Change management is a whole beast on its own. You can go and take courses and get certified in change management. We don’t know how to navigate change, we’re just navigating the same way we’ve done when we’ve had kids moved homes or got a new car. Like, “Oh, what am I supposed to do here?” The biggest challenge they have is they’ve never been given the skills to manage change.

The change that is happening, sometimes big- I mean, you’re talking about bringing in a whole new digital way of being- or a website. It could be moving buildings. It’s lots of different changes. They’re big things, and there’s a lot of moving parts. But within that, there’s also a lot of emotions.

We don’t know how to navigate those emotions. People are grieving the loss of whatever it is that we’re giving up.

Before I transitioned into the work I do now, I was a leader in an organization, and as I stepped out, I moved into a tech role. We were just putting in case management software so people have to manage their notes on case notes digitally.

Well, A, where I live, lots of people don’t even have internet. In some of the rural communities, you go out and visit a client, you don’t have internet to access. We didn’t have enough laptops. There was all of this stuff. But then there was also the fear of change.

I think those are two of the big things, is lack of training and then just managing all the emotions that circle around change.

David Pisarek: Yeah. One of the organizations that I worked at, I’m not going to name any names here, but we opened up a new thing. I’m not going to mention that because that’s it. There was a lot of systems that needed to be integrated and split and merged and tagging people on different things.

I said, “Hey, there’s going to be a big surge on this new thing that we’re doing right now. Why don’t we actually just set up new systems for all of this and copy what we’re doing here and put it here? That way it can grow and it can grow separately because they are two different distinct things.” Then they went down the road and they were doing all that. And long behold, some folks that were there for years and years, I’m talking 25 or 30 years, they were like, “We don’t want to change this. This is too complicated for us to maneuver in our day-to-day work that we’re doing.” And so what did they do? They undid all that. They went with the one system.

And then about 10 years later, they went, “This isn’t working anymore, we need to split.” And I think it’s some of that forecasting that needs to be done from the bottom up and the top down, where everybody’s on the same page and they understand the rationale, the reason, the motivation to do this new thing. It can be scary.

Kathy Archer: It can be scary. And I think of what you’re talking about, too, back to the training, a leader’s job is to create the vision for the future.

But often in non-profits, we are head down, putting out fires and crisis all day. We never step up to do that forecasting, to do that visioning, to think strategically. We don’t give ourselves or a team space. We’re like, “This is the way we’ve always done it. Let’s just keep whacking the moles, the way we’ve always done it. If it’s not broke, don’t fix it.” We’re like, “Whoa, slow down and take some time to see that future, create that future, talk about that future, and bring the people along with you.” But again, that’s a skill that you’ve got to learn how to do.

David Pisarek: I see a lot of organizations, they do annual strat planning. But why are you only doing annual strat planning? Do quarter of strat planning. What is the plan to get you quarter after quarter to that goal that you have? Yes, we have to take our time out of the day-to-day stuff that we’re stuck doing.

It’s worth it because it gets everybody on board and you have the clear path and everybody understands how they fit in. And so you end up a more well-oiled machine that’s running and doing the stuff that you want it to do.

Kathy Archer: I talk to my leaders all the time about “you need a yearly plan,” yes. I talk about organizational plan and individual growth plan. But then you break it down quarterly, and then you break it down monthly and weekly. Weekly, I want to say, “what am I working on in terms of that strat plan this week?” Because strat plan is a big project.

Today is a to-do, what part of that? Or when you’re in a team meeting, how are you connecting that Strat meeting to this conversation about this change that we’re working on? Remember, there’s a strategic reason we’re going there, but it’s not a binder that just gets dust till next year. But sadly, that’s what happens in many organizations.

David Pisarek: Some of the things that we do internally at WOW Digital, and we run this with a number of our clients as well, is the EOS framework. It talks about rocks and goal setting and those pieces. We do that internally. We do quarterly Strat Planning, annual strategy planning. I’ve got everybody in my team where they have their own individual goals.

In EOS, you call it rocks.

What are these goals? Then every Monday when we meet, we check in. How does it go on with this?

Kathy Archer: What does EOS stand for, just for people who don’t know?

David Pisarek: Entrepreneur Operating System.

Kathy Archer: There we go. There we go. Yeah.

David Pisarek: Yeah. Taking time to shift, and I’m going to ask you a question in a second here, but taking a moment to shift your mindset to go, “Okay, let’s be strategic in what we’re doing.” Not everything is strategic, right? Because there’s the data a-day task. We have to get back to people. We have to reply to this email or create a report or whatever.

But let’s be 70% strategic in the work that we do and have that vision, that goal, and that way we’re working towards something and we know exactly what that is.

Kathy Archer: I always tell people, put that strategy part first in the day. Spend three or five minutes strategically looking at your to-do list. “What do I not need to do today?” If you put that planning in the beginning, then you can fight fires the rest of the day. But you’ve got that intention at the beginning of the day, you’re better able to maneuver your day. Yeah, I love it.

David Pisarek: Exactly. We use ClickUp for project management and account management. In ClickUp, there’s a section for goals, and you can go in, you can create goals in there, and you can put dates on them. You can set up, “All right, how many of these things do I need?” If you’re in donation, foundation, grant area, “how many donors am I reaching out to a week or a month?” You can set those criteria there so you know, “Hey, you know what? I actually got these done.” Something macro happens.

When you complete something and you check it off and mark it at 100, with that hit of dopamine, and it feels good and it makes you want to do more to move your stuff forward and the organization forward.

Kathy Archer: I think those are important things. Yeah, very much so.

David Pisarek: Okay. Briefly, I mentioned a mindset shift here, but from your perspective, Kathy, what are some mindset shifts that are necessary for non-profit leaders to invest in big changes, like adopting digital strategies or new platforms or something like that?

Kathy Archer: Yeah. I think one of the big ones is a shift from that fixed to a growth mindset. This is the way we’ve always done it. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it. We just get stuck in our ways. We have to shift to that growth mindset where we want to learn and develop and think about possibilities.

That mindset helps us both grow ourselves. “Oh, I don’t know how to take people through change. Maybe I should take a mini-course on LinkedIn learning about how to maneuver change. Okay, then I’ve learned a little bit and I’m starting to take my team through things.” Then, that growth mindset also comes back to talking with you as the contractor. It doesn’t make sense to me. “No, because that’s not my world. Help me understand. Walk me through it in layman’s terms why I need two of these things.” Helping just to be more open, that mindset shift is important.

Then the other shift, again, is from in the weeds to lifting your head up and more visionary. “Where are we going with this? Why are we going? What’s the strategic reason?” We have to shift from day to day, like putting out fires to strategically seeing things. That’s a different mindset shift. It takes more space. I think we were talking about this before. You need space to think like that. You got to create that space in your calendar.

David Pisarek: Two thoughts around what you just talked about. One is, I always say you need to run your non-profit like it was a business. As part of that, you need a business case. Imagine that you were going to a bank and you said, “I need a loan, I need a million dollars.” The bank is going to say, “why? What do you need this for?” Then you need to present your case.

If you’re clear about what your case is, it makes it easier for people to understand what you’re doing, why you’re doing it, how you’re going to do it, and then ultimately care about your cause. That’s where donations will start to flow. That’s where grants will start to come in. I was talking about bank loans, but that’s where money is going to start to flow into the organization. That’s perfect.

The second point that I made a note of here is you can’t sit in your office at the same screen and put your mindset in this other thing. You need to get out of your office, go into a boardroom, sit on a chair on the other side of your desk. You can’t be in the same space because you’re not going to let creativity start to flow. Sit and look out the window for a while in paper, pens, iPad, whatever, and just give yourself the space.

Kathy Archer: I’ve always said that to my clients, “you cannot think strategically sitting at your computer. Walk away from the computer.” Yeah, go for a walk. I am like the kitchen table, sticky note, highlighter… They’re old school. That’s how I think, right? People will say that all the time. “Oh, I got this idea in the shower.” Well, exactly, because you let your brain settle down enough to think. So yes, absolutely.

David Pisarek: I’m going to admit something here. It’s a bit of a funny story.

About 12 years ago when I was working at the hospital, I was doing a whole bunch of coding and scripting. We were working on something and it just kept generating errors. I was like, “What is going on?” I was staring at the code. It had to be in for five minutes or whatever. I’m like, I’m done. I got up, I went out for a walk, went to Starbucks, got a drink. I don’t know if that helped or not, but came back into the office and instead of a semicolon, it was a comma, and that’s what was throwing the code off.

It took me about three minutes when I got back to my desk. Being able to get some clarity and stop doing what you’re doing for even a brief amount of time will open up the neurons and the transmitters in your brain to be able to see things a little bit differently.

Kathy Archer: Exactly. Yes.

David Pisarek: What do you think, Kathy, is stopping leaders from asking for help?

Kathy Archer: Imposter syndrome. For me, I do a lot of work with women leaders, and women get into these positions from frontline, we move up without the training or support to move up. If I ask for help, that would admit that I don’t know. If I say I don’t know, maybe that would tell me somebody that I’m not the right person for the job. There’s this fear of being seen wrong.

Leaders feel like this is another mindset shift that we have to make. I’m supposed to know everything. No, you’re not actually supposed to know everything. You are leading. Leadership is different than doing the job. You do not have to know how to do the job. That’s what you hire people for, is to do the job. You need to lead and create that vision and that strategy and do that big picture, which means you might need to say, “help me understand, tell me, give me some suggestions, some advice, walk me through this.”

You don’t need to know all the answers. But it’s fear of not knowing all the answers that sometimes stops people.

David Pisarek: I love the idea that you need to hire people to do the stuff that you can’t do. You also need to hire people to do the stuff you don’t have the time to do. Sometimes they’re correlated, sometimes they’re not.

Getting the expertise in, having the expert do that for you. It will cost money when you bring somebody in to do something. But think of the load that’s going to come off of your shoulders by doing that. That’s why we hire people in teams to be able to do those things.

Kathy Archer: Yeah. I often will take my leaders through the Gallup strengths finder, which identifies your strengths. One of the things that I will tell them is, “Delegate your weaknesses. Take your weaknesses. Don’t try and fix those and shore them up. Delegate those.”

I had one agency that I worked with that hired an HR specialist to help write those policies and people coming and going and did some of the screening of interviews, huge load off their mind. Another agency hired somebody to do some of the set up of the website and all of the information, just like weight-lifted. You don’t need to do that. What I love about working with you, from what I know already, is it’s not that you’re just going to do the job, that you’re going to do it strategically.

I think that’s what people are often afraid of when they ask for help, is that somebody’s going to take it over. They’re going to hide this job that they’re doing. I’m not going to see anything for a year. “They’re going to spend all my money, I’m going to get this thing back, and it’s going to be not what I wanted.”

I think to your point about consults, go on LinkedIn and connect with people. Ask other people for reviews and suggestions. In my coaching, I always tell people, “Just check with me and connect with me for a call. If you don’t like me, move on.” Whether I have the expertise or not, there needs to be a connection there. And so reach out and do the free stuff. Lots of consultants, especially in the non-profit world, have a free webinar, lots of stuff on their LinkedIn or their blog. Check it out. Get to know this person a little bit.

Do your homework, but then create a relationship rather than just delegate it and walk away. Create a relationship where you’re building something together, but they’re the experts.

David Pisarek: Yeah, and that triggered something else as you were talking about that, Kathy, is you’re not in this alone. You may not want to talk to people at your organization. You might not want to talk to your CEO or your HR team about how you need support with this or that. But maybe you can find somebody who’s in a similar role at another organization, maybe in a different province, a different state, a different country, and you can a relationship with them and have conversation with them where you’re giving them some insight, they’re giving you some insight, you’re helping each other, that type of thing.

One step maybe a little bit further than that is to actually find a mentor that you can reach out to that has been through this, that has experience that can guide you and provide you with the insight to help you grow, because that’s what’s going to help you. I don’t want to be the smartest person in the room.

I think it’s Warren Buffet that says, “Never be the smartest person in the room because you’re never going to learn, you’re not going to grow.” There’s people out there that have more experience than you.

David Pisarek: There’s people out there that have less experience than you. You can learn both ways, even if you’re coaching and mentoring and helping somebody else out.

Kathy Archer: Well, that goes back to what you said about why don’t they ask for help? One of the biggest challenges we have is managing up. As you just said maybe they don’t want to talk to their board or their CEO about it. That’s a challenge we have.

Again, we move into these positions and we’re like, “Oh, I’m just a frontline person.” You move up and you move up. But you always have this, there’s something up here that I can’t communicate with them. That sometimes gets in the way. Having a mentor or a coach is a wonderful way to support that transition.

David Pisarek: What strategies could non-profit leaders use to create buy-in from their teams when they’re going through change in the organization?

Kathy Archer: Yeah, a change management framework is a good one. There’s a really good book called Transitions older book, Transitions by William Bridges. One of the things he talks about that I often talk about with leaders is allow people to grieve first, to have that conversation about “what are we letting go of, what are we saying goodbye to, what’s changing?” I did a session with an agency that was moving buildings.

We just spent an hour talking about “what’s this transition? What are we leaving?” It was things like a doorman. There was a guy that was always there, probably the janitor or something like that, that I always talked to and somebody else was like, “I love to drive, I got to listen to podcasts,” so and so and “I had windows and we had plants.” It was just those kinds of things.

But the ability to go, “what am I letting go of?” If you’ve got a system and you know a system, maybe it’s writing your notes or how you track your funders. “I like this system. I created this system” or “I’ve done it for years. I’m comfortable with it and you’re asking me to let it go.”

Kathy Archer: Horrible example. But I will often tell people, “your husband has died or your spouse has died, you’re at the funeral home and your best friend says, Oh, my God, we’re going to get you a new guy. He’s going to be better than the last one. We’re like, Wait a minute. I haven’t had a chance to create this one yet.” But that’s what we do in organizations. “Oh, it’s going to be wonderful. We try and rip them over here and tell them how pretty and amazing and beautiful it’s going to be. Let’s move through.”

We do this grieving process called “the new beginning.” But in the middle, it’s the messy middle. This is where you’re cleaning your closet or the kitchen cupboards or whatever, and you take everything out, and the room looks like it blew up. We’ve got to talk about that. This is the messy middle. It is messy. You’re still using this system. You’re learning this system. You’re trying to figure it out. It’s messy. Just acknowledging that. I was watching a webinar yesterday from a Toastmasters, and Toastmasters International has just changed their platform. They use FaceCamp, and it’s difficult. They’ve got this new setup, that to me, still looks difficult.

Kathy Archer: They’re going to have to convince me to get to the new stage. But at one point, the thing’s going around and around on the screen, and they just said, “We realized that it’s taking a long time to load. We’re hoping that’s going to change.” But the messy middle is as things are changing, sometimes it takes a long time for whatever to load. Go switch the laundry if you work at home. I don’t know. But just recognizing it’s the messy middle is helpful.

David Pisarek: Yeah, there’s a point whenever there’s change where people are concerned the grass isn’t always greener on the other side, there might be a lot of unknowns because it’s a new technology or a new way of doing things or new forms that you have to fill out or a new audience that you’re trying to connect with. There’s uncertainty and there’s worry and there’s panic and there’s all the stuff that employees are likely really struggling to keep together without letting you know they’re worried, they’re concerned. I think that’s where the human connection comes in.

I think it’s important as leaders that we meet with our team and we have conversations with our team and let them know, “Hey, this is why we’re doing this,” so that they understand and you understand from their perspective what’s going on. I know sometimes we can make bigger decisions as a group. Quite often, we need to make bigger decisions and then force it on the folks that are around. I don’t know anybody that really enjoys that.

Being honest with your team, I think, goes a long way, too. “Hey, we need to do this.” There’s been a lot of layoffs over the last couple of years in the tech sector. Why are we shifting? “Why are we letting go of this division while we’re doing this because of this, this, this, and this,” and appease them, make them not worry, make them understand what’s going on in hard conversations are always hard.

Kathy Archer: Which I’ll just put a plug in for my book here again. This is why it’s that leading with those ethics and values and more because we come into these conversations task-oriented. Like you said, we’re forcing, here’s the change we need to do. “I need you to do this tomorrow and this next week, and this is the new form we’re going to use.” We’ve got this look on our face that is like, “We know what the look is.” Then we must do the human contact, again, back to grieving or worry about the future.

Let’s have a conversation and have some compassion and not just force that change through because people won’t like you if that’s what you’re trying to do.

David Pisarek: Usually what happens in my experience is the leaders have been thinking and contemplating about this for months, if not a year. The people underneath have no hope about any of that because it’s all happened at board meetings. It’s all happened behind the C-suite, and it’s new. They haven’t had time to digest.

I love your point about giving people space and time. If you could be like, “Hey, we’re going to be making some changes. We’re going to be moving offices. We bought this new building down the street. I want to let you know now we’re going to be moving in three months.” That’s enough time. Not, “Hey, by the way, Monday, pack up your stuff We’re moving,” right?

Kathy Archer: Exactly.

David Pisarek: Unfortunately, we can’t always tell everybody what’s going on because nothing’s really firmed up yet. But just do your best. That’s all we can all do. I know often there’s meetings upon meetings, and everybody sits around and they talk and there’s a little bit of paralysis that happens not just in the decision making, but in the actual doing because when there’s something negative, people tend to procrastinate around that type of stuff.

How could leaders overcome that analysis paralysis to move forward with the things that they need to?

Kathy Archer: First thing is they need to get clear on what’s the decision they’re making. I think sometimes we’re not clear on the actual decision. When you take a moment to write the decision engine down and go this way or this way, it just helps the brain. Sometimes we’re just mulling it over and it’s just taking up space and it shows up as an agenda item as discussion.

What are we discussing? So clearly identifying what’s the decision we’re making and what are the options, then thinking about who needs to be involved in this decision, how much time do we want to give this decision, and a date of when we’re going to decide. If we can lay that out, then it becomes easier to make the decision. There’s a ripple down effect, and we don’t often think about that when we’re making those decisions.

Having a decision making framework is powerful.

David Pisarek: I love the idea of that. There are definitely best practices that people can put into place, like change management and those type of things. But what are some best practices that people can leverage to avoid some common mistakes when they’re managing through change?

Kathy Archer: Create a plan, review your plan often, and revise your plan often.

Strategic plan is not something that you do once a year and you forget about it. Create a plan for your change. It’s not just a few things on a piece of paper. We were talking about Slack earlier or ClickUp. It’s some place that there’s moving parts. I love the sticky notes behind you. When I was writing my book, it was the cue card stuck to the wall everywhere. You have to have a visual that people can see, and here’s this going on, and this is happening over here. It’s a big thing.

So create a plan and create space regularly to review that plan. Don’t be afraid to change it. Don’t be hardwired to this is what we said we were going to do. Then circling back to what we’ve been talking about all along, ask for help. The best practice is don’t do it on your own. Ask for help in whatever way that is, depending on what the changes that you’re working through, but get support to navigate that change.

David Pisarek: Love it. Kathy, amazing insights around leadership, managing change. I hope our listeners have been able to pick up some great tidbits and advice. I know I’ve got a couple that I’m going to be running through with my team, as well as our client as we meet with them. I’m going to put you on the spot here. I like doing this. What is a challenge that you would like to issue to everybody that’s listening to this podcast to do within maybe two or three days of listening to the episode?

Kathy Archer: Create 15-minute blocks on your calendar every day for thinking time. Like, really go into your calendar, schedule thinking time, 15-minute blocks every day.

David Pisarek: I’m just going to upgrade that for a moment. I have, I don’t know, 19 different calendars. One of them is a focus block calendar. What I’ve done is every day, so every day of the week, I’ve got a focus time. I know, “all right, I’m not meeting with a client, I’m not meeting with anybody in my team at that point,” and I put in a 30-minute block, and then I have that recur every week on that day. Don’t do one that’s Monday to Friday, always from 2:00 to 2:30. Bad idea. Do a separate one for Monday that always occurs on Monday, Tuesday. They’re going to close on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, because you’re going to have something that comes up. You’re going to have, I don’t know, senior leadership meeting that comes up for the next three months. That’s going to be exactly when that is and when you go to try to shift it. It’s going to cause chaos in your calendar. A separate one for each day. There you go. That’s my little upgrade.

Kathy Archer: I will upgrade it one more. It’s tell your team that it is thinking time, but tell your team in the next staff meeting. When I was using my thinking time yesterday, create value for thinking time in your organization.

David Pisarek: Kathy, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, what do they need to do?

Kathy Archer: Any of the socials, you can find me in @KathyDarcher. Instagram is my favorite place to hang out and make sure you say “hi.” My website is kathyarcher.com. Easy enough to find Kathy with the K. Those are the easiest places to get a hold of me.

David Pisarek: Awesome. You’ve got an offer. We’re talking about it just before we hit record here. Tell everybody what you’ve got.

Kathy Archer: You asked me earlier about what’s the big thing that gets in the way. Often it’s the imposter syndrome. People are lacking the confidence. I have a quick download that you can get that offers two immediate confidence boosts. These are things that you can do right before you have to go into that difficult conversation or have that tough meeting or whatever. These are two things that are really going to help you instantly boost your confidence.

David Pisarek: Awesome. Two things. How long is it going to take anybody read that and actually implement? It’s probably really quick.

Kathy Archer: Two minutes, or less.

David Pisarek: I don’t know if you have this one on your list, but the Superman pose standing like this for 10 seconds, every day. Do it by yourself in the bathroom with the door closed, whatever. It’s not a mindset shift, and thinking in that way is going to have impact across your life, personal and professional.

Kathy Archer: Again, it’s that mindset shift. I don’t need to know all the answers.

David Pisarek: Thank you again so much for joining us on the episode. It’s been great having you on the Non-profit Digital Success podcast. To everybody listening, if you want access to any of the links, the books, the this or that that we’ve been talking about today, just head over to our podcast show notes page. Just go to nonprofitdigitalsuccess.com click on this episode for all the details. Until next time, keep on being successful!